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The Preaching Life

An Interview with Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie

“The Preaching Life”* is a regular feature of Preacher’s Magazine where readers are privileged to sit in the classroom and read insights on current preaching models from some of the finest preachers. Recently, Preacher’s Magazine had the opportunity to sit down with Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie and talk about preaching.

PM: As you are traveling around the English-speaking world, what are you hearing from clergy and laity about the current state of preaching?

Dr. Ogilvie: I’m hearing two different things. From the laity I’m hearing a plea for much greater emphasis on preaching. From laity, I sense a deep desire for biblical, Christ-centered, Holy Spirit empowered preaching. I hear people asking for that. From the clergy, I hear somewhat of a response to that. They say, “Alright, if we’re going to do that, what’s it going to take, and how can I redistribute my time in order to have the time to do the quality of preaching that’s needed?” Added to that, I’m finding that many pastors, and I’m not suggesting any one denomination over another, feel that they did not receive the kind of practical, usable training in preaching that would enable them to preach effectively when they got into their churches. We are really missing the mark in the training of preachers. There’s been such a great emphasis on pastoral counseling, church expansion, and membership development. These techniques are all very important, but unless there’s strong preaching the church will not continue to grow nor will it be effective. Because of that, we need to do a re-tooling program for pastors who are already in parishes. Then we really need to look at the programs in seminaries to see what we can do to re-emphasize preaching with passion. I put it in those words because that defines for me a combination of preaching with an emphasis on allowing the suffering of Christ to meet the deepest needs in our own lives and then to reach out to other people to touch the suffering in their lives—allowing our own inner beings to become the crucible for the formation of the messages.

PM: One of the things you’ve challenged preachers to do is spend one hour in the study for every minute in the pulpit. That is a real challenge. Why do you think study is so important? What does that do for preaching?

Dr. Ogilvie: First of all, it prepares the preacher in his or her own experience for development. As you spend time studying to preach, the message has an impact on your own life. In addition to that, you are able to deal with the text thoroughly and gather corollary texts from the scriptures that support the passage. And then you are able to gather historical illustrations which give people the opportunity to see into the real meaning of the text, and then to illustrate from the lives of contemporary people and illustrations, to make it clear as to what the text means for today. Then you are able to say that this is what the text means, because you’ve dealt with it in those hours in the study and allowed the Holy Spirit to inspire again what God inspired in the original text. I believe if we will trust the Holy Spirit to take what God inspired in the original writing and bring freshness and life to it for our contemporary preaching, it will have a great impact.

PM: So when you say an hour in the study, you’re referring to more than reading and writing—this could be any segment of the process, even the memorization of the sermon? It’s not just the preparation of the sermon, but of the preacher?

Dr. Ogilvie: Right.

PM: I’ve heard you share a couple of times that when you were preaching every Sunday, especially in Hollywood, that your strategy for future sermon planning was going to Edinburgh, Scotland every summer to begin advance preparation of your sermons for the year. Tell us a little of what your practice would be.

Dr. Ogilvie: Let me put that into context. I have taken Romans 15:29 very seriously. I’ve come to believe that the path to preaching is to do exactly what Paul promised to do when he would arrive at Rome. Remember that text? “I know that when I come to you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the Gospel of Christ.” I feel that when I preach, I’m to come to the people with the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel for me is life, message, and power for all of our existence. All of the fullness of Christ’s indwelling Spirit is the secret of living the exhilarating call to discipleship. I call this quadraphonic preaching: I believe that the Bible is the inspired, authoritative Word of God, that Christ is the center of the proclamation of redemption, conversion, and new life. I also believe that the plumb line of the gospel can be lowered to establish our call to justice and social responsibility. And I believe that the baptism and continual infilling of the Holy Spirit is essential for Christ-empowered living and preaching. I believe Christ is calling us to biblical, evangelical, socially responsible spirit-filled preaching. And my hope is that on any Sunday people could receive this in a Bible church, evangelical church, social action church, and even a charismatic church.

PM: So in light of those beliefs, you would take the summer months to prepare to do that?

Dr. Ogilvie: Yes. What I would do is collect the questions of my people throughout the year. I would ask them to tell me what was on their minds and hearts, their questions and most urgent concerns. Those would be collected through the year, put into categories, and then one representative notation of each of the categories would be taken with me. I think that listening is one of the lost arts of contemporary leadership, certainly in preaching. I think of the old adage, “There is nothing so foolish as the answer to an unasked question, or a solution to an unexpressed problem.” I like to rephrase that to say, “There is nothing so powerful as a Christ-inspired answer or solution in an exposition of a Bible passage when it touches people’s raw nerves or aching needs.”

After reviewing all of the questions, then I began to study the scriptures to find the biblical answers to people’s questions and concerns. Then I began to outline the entire year. I outlined the sermons for the next year with the title, the text, an explanation of the theme, and the progression of the message. Then I sent that back to the director of music, and the music director could build the entire service around what was going to be exposited in the sermon. It helped people really feel that you have listened to them and are responding to what is on their minds and hearts. So it’s dialogical preaching.

PM: You are hearing their voices in the study?

Dr. Ogilvie: Yes. And it’s electrifying to preach that way because you feel that you are talking to people about their real needs rather than what you are imposing upon them.

PM: Knowing that so many pastors are bi-vocational, having limited time to study and prepare, how would you suggest they make study a front-burner priority for their ministry? Is there some pattern that you would suggest that might be helpful?

Dr. Ogilvie: First of all, I think a person has to come to a conviction about this within himself or herself, so that it’s because he or she wants to do it. Secondly, that the leadership of the church or parish is brought into the process. People can support only what they share in developing—that’s the whole law of management. And if the people understand why this is so important, then all you need to do is exposit Paul’s word to Timothy: “Preach the Word.” Then you need to explain to a congregation, that that doesn’t just happen. True expository preaching is not simply coming into the pulpit with no preparation and thinking that the Holy Spirit will redeem the situation.

PM: Preaching has to become the priority of the pastor. It has to be such a conviction that makes other things not unimportant, but certainly secondary, to being prepared to preach on Sunday.

Dr. Ogilvie: Yes. If a person is in a part-time parish situation, then the proportionate amount of time that they spend in study must have priority. It is simply coming to the place that preaching has the priority in the pastoral responsibility. And many pastors have not come to that decision. Many are afraid to, and others don’t think their people will support that. Yet we’re finding that the churches where there is growth and vitality are the churches where there is a priority on preaching.

PM: There seems to be a growing assumption that what people want is a shepherding ministry. And while every pastor must give loving pastoral care, there is a crying need right now for visionary leadership through preaching.

Dr. Ogilvie: Oh, indeed. The people of God need to understand the call to commitment to Christ, but also the implications of living out the faith in the culture in which we live. And there needs to be a clarion call from the pulpit for people to press on. Commitment is only the beginning, and you can’t stop running at the starting line. That happens to so many Christians, they keep re-starting the race, but never run toward the goal.

This interview will be continued in the next issue.

Lloyd John Ogilvie served as chaplain of the United States Senate for eight years. In 1996, he was named by Baylor University as one of the twelve most effective preachers in the English-speaking world. He served for 23 years as pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood. He is the author of 48 books, and the editor of the 32 volume Communicator’s Commentary.

*Preacher’s Magazine is indebted to Barbara Brown Taylor for the title of this column.